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Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:23 pm
by Kystar
Okay, this is going to sound weird, but does anyone know anything about a deity or demi-god that is only portrayed as evil?

Over the centuries, some picked up some darker traits, but weren't intrinsically evil. Like Ares was portrayed as a blood-thirsty killer, when he really was all about the glory of strength vs. strength.

Anyways, I'm trying to see if there's a god/goddess/demigod that's pretty much all bad...that ISN'T from a D&D book!

If no one can think of one, oh well...then the story isn't meant to go that direction.

Thanks in advance.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:48 pm
by Crazy Healer Lady
You mean something first created as dark? Not including the bastardized versions, such as Satan being a sick twist of the Horned God?

To be fully honest, I can't think of one. Not even Kali, the goddess of destruction and often seen as tyrranous, is seen as fully evil. I seem to remember something in the old Norse creation story, but I can't remember their names.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:21 pm
by Kystar
To put it into perspective, something divine that would help a mass-murdering psychotic nut gain more power...so yes, something evil from the word go would be better than something twisted.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:33 pm
by Kitsune
The Egyptians had darker gods, and at least one of evil and darkness... I'll do a quick search for you and post on here if I find something...

Found him!!! (and edited this to avoid the evil "double post" :lol: )

Am-Heh

Am-He was a threatening Underworld god whose name means "Devourer of Millions". he dwells in a Like of Fire, and if that were not enough, his ferocity is augmented by his having the face of a hunting dog and an appetite for sacrifices. Only Atum could fend off Am-Heh, and he could only be controlled by Ra, the God of the Sun. He was generally portrayed as a man with the head of a hunting dog.

Sorry, I couldn't find anything else on him... but with a name that means "Devourer of Millions" he can't be a very kind guy.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:21 am
by Ragnar
Look at Loké and MAYBE Fenris. Perhaps the Giants that wish to destroy Asgard? Read the "Ragnarok" story, and see if anything meets the criteria.

Thing is, as you will know, in natural religions EVERYTHING has a purpose, and therefore can not be ALL bad. In fact probably 50/50 at worse.

Even the werewolves in the moat around Asgard that devour the corpses of the dead are nothing more evil than earth worms in a cemetary.

That is why we can be SURE that "evil" was created by the desert peasent religions. None of ours HAD the concept.

"Evil is in the eye of the beholder".

BUT I have a request on behalf of ALL Germanic/Norse practitioners, PLEASE do NOT see our path as merely a usefull source for "evil entity's" in games and books. Which is what seems to happen all over.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:08 am
by Kystar
Um, the Devourer of Millions might be an option...hmmm...maybe.

Ragnar...the thing is...Loki's already IN this story...and he's not evil...he's just chaos. Basically, I've put it that before things got too bad, the Asgard bound Loki and cast him out to wander the world...based on the prophecies of Ragnarok. He's helping the main hero. Lost a bet, but hey, he's still helping the main hero. And I don't want to deal with the mythology giants...as the world has a race of mortal giants and it wouldn't fit.

I know that usually you don't find complete evil in the old gods/mythology...but a friend suggested adding a dark god to help the villain...so, I thought I'd see what's out there. So far, I don't see it as a viable plot twist. Though, the Egyptian one might fit...I'll have to do some research and see...hmm, it's an idea.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:02 am
by Kitsune
Hmm, if you already have a race of giants that probally wouldn't fit.

You could always take a look at a few of "twisted" accounts of dark gods as well, and make a demon that they were based on... Say that we "dumbed them down" to create less fear... Sort of like we do with the Hans Christian Anderson tales and the other old myths.

Hmmm, I have little to no knowledge of the Aztec deities, but I know that they had one of near ultimate evil as well... I'd have to do an internet search on him to get his name. He's the deity who was supposed to take over his dominion in 2012, when they forcast the "end of days" from what I remember...

Once again, I'll try to find out something for you and post here... It's good to have other people to bounce ideas off of, especially when you know what you want, you just can't find it.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:28 pm
by Ragnar
Kitsune wrote:He's the deity who was supposed to take over his dominion in 2012, when they forcast the "end of days" from what I remember...
[-( NO, they can not do that. We already have the battle field and all facilities booked and paid for for Möckern, Großgorschen, Großbeeren and Leipzig in 2013.

If this God guy goes recking the plans, I can assure you, he will be hearing MOST strongly from our solicitors, and MAY have to motgage his little pad in the pyramid to pay the componsation.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:04 am
by Lotus
I know that this is kinda cliche but, Zeus.
Now there is a big difference between neo-pagan and olden day view of this God. His "fluff-ification" was more due to modern influences of the Greek myths.
You will be hard pressed to find a temple or ritual (except modern) devoted to him. They, back in the day, did not worship or revere him. He was "Evil" or as evil could be back then.
Many of my Hellenic (sp) friends in the know have discovered this about Zeus.

BB
Lotus

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:40 am
by Kystar
I'm trying to avoid a second Olympian, as I have Athena in the story.

Thanks for the help, everyone, I'm going to do some research on the two presented and see what works, if anything. Personally, I don't think anything will fit, but I can't discount the idea out of hand without research.

Any more suggestions are welcome.
Thanks, again!

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:10 am
by Kystar
Kitsune wrote:The Egyptians had darker gods, and at least one of evil and darkness... I'll do a quick search for you and post on here if I find something...

Found him!!! (and edited this to avoid the evil "double post" :lol: )

Am-Heh

Am-He was a threatening Underworld god whose name means "Devourer of Millions". he dwells in a Like of Fire, and if that were not enough, his ferocity is augmented by his having the face of a hunting dog and an appetite for sacrifices. Only Atum could fend off Am-Heh, and he could only be controlled by Ra, the God of the Sun. He was generally portrayed as a man with the head of a hunting dog.

Sorry, I couldn't find anything else on him... but with a name that means "Devourer of Millions" he can't be a very kind guy.
When I looked it up in Wiki (b/c Pantheon didn't have it!), I found that it was another name for Ammit, who devoured the hearts of those who were evil-doers...those whose hearts tipped the scales against Ma'at's feather.

Despite the name, the "demon" (Head of a dog or crocodile, upper body of a lioness or leopard, butt of a hippo) was actually doing good by destroying the souls of evil-doers. In other versions, she's the guardian of the lake of fire that the sinful hearts were tossed into.

So, that's a bust. Thanks for the thought, though.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:43 pm
by Kitsune
Darn it, and I thought I might have hit paydirt for her! Thank you for finding more info though... I did my search but wasn't thorough enough I guess.


Hmm, I think that's my knowledge of ancient evil deities gone... I can't think of any others at the moment... But I'll keep an eye out for you and respond if I come up with anything...

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:51 pm
by Kystar
Eh, it was a suggestion made by someone, to add more depth to the story, but I didn't think I was going to follow that...because despite all the "dark" gods I've read about, they all had their purpose. None of them were such complete gods of destruction that it would work for this story.

And since I wanted to keep to mythology, and not fiction, I couldn't just dive into D&D and pull out one of their nasty gods. Wouldn't work, too far away from what i was doing.

Thanks anyways.

BTW - I found nothing on an "evil" aztec god, beyond the standard gods of the dead and the underworld. There was a monster who was forced to serve as the world's base that demanded human sacrifice, but I think she got killed in one of the Aztec Gods' reset of the world. Nothing on a god of wholesale, pointless, wanton destruction.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:43 am
by Ragnar
Kystar wrote: Despite the name, the "demon" (Head of a dog or crocodile, upper body of a lioness or leopard, butt of a hippo) was actually doing good by destroying the souls of evil-doers. In other versions, she's the guardian of the lake of fire that the sinful hearts were tossed into.

So, that's a bust. Thanks for the thought, though.
Well that's what you are going to get with ALL Heathen religions. I would have thought everyone here, by now, would have realised we do not HAVE good/evil.

EVERYTHING is for a purpose. I do not like the summer. I HATE the summer. It does not make Baldur evil.

And any book, any author, who trys to say otherwise, or tries to portray Heathenism as otherwise, is merely unraveling all the advances in getting ourselves accepted that this site, and many others, and individuals or groups outside of the net have made in the last 50 years, or so.

Re: Story Reference needed.

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:54 am
by Bandersnatch
I can't think of any deity that was wholly and only evil but I did find this...
"Ifrit, also spelled AFREET, AFRIT, AFRITE, or EFREET, Arabic (male) 'IFRIT, or (female) 'IFRITAH, in Islamic mythology, a class of infernal jinn (spirits below the level of angels and devils) noted for their strength and cunning. An ifrit is an enormous winged creature of smoke, either male or female, who lives underground and frequents ruins. Ifrits live in a society structured along ancient Arab tribal lines, complete with kings, tribes, and clans. They generally marry one another, but they can also marry humans. While ordinary weapons and forces have no power over them, they are susceptible to magic, which humans can use to kill them or to capture and enslave them. As with the jinn, an ifrit may be either a believer or an unbeliever, good or evil, but he is most often depicted as a wicked and ruthless being.
"The rare appearance of the term ifrit in the Qur'an (the sacred scripture of Islam) and in Hadith (eyewitness narratives recounting Muhammad's words, actions, or approbations) is always in the phrase ' the ifrit of the jinn' and probably means ' rebellious.' The word subsequently came to refer to an entire class of formidable, rebellious beings, but, in the confused world of chthonic (underworld) spirits, it was difficult to differentiate one from another. The ifrit thus became virtually indistinguishable from the marid, also a wicked and rebellious demon."
- Encyclopaedia Britannica
That probably doesn't help but I do know that these beings were generally regarded as evil or at least mischievous. Like granting a wish of buried treasure by burying you with the treasure. In some instances they were worse than demons and feared because any involvement would end badly.