Sigils: in wicca, asatru and chaos

serious discussion on magick and energy usages in the world and affects.

which kind of sigil do you use?

none
0
No votes
Spare-style monographics (ala TOPY)
2
67%
traditional Pagan 'magic square' sigils/seals
1
33%
 
Total votes: 3

MuladHara
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Sigils: in wicca, asatru and chaos

Post by MuladHara » Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:33 pm

How do you use Sigils?

there are many kinds of sigils, and they are used in many different ways.
the classic sigil is the Planetary Sigil.
this is constructed using magick squares.

in asatru they often use runes as magickal configurations during rites such as blots.

in chaos magick they use the Monographic Sigil, which was popularized by the readers of Austin Osman Spare, such as the temple ov thee psychick youth, formed by genesis p orridge, of throbbing gristle and coum transmissions fame.

TOPY seems to be the at the forefront of sigilic magick.
( www.topy.net )
many people seem to have trouble with the ways in which sigils can fired, which is often thought to be misconstrued as a sex-magick.
While orgasms can and often are used for this purpose, there are many ways of acheiving Gnosis beyond orgasm. Loud music, exhaustion, prolonged dancing and singing, drugs, meditation, even the trance of video games can leave an open gate for the sigil to pass through.

anything that shorts out the subconscious resistance to magick and the analytical attention to the sigils meaning is capable of producing gnosis.


so how do YOU use sigils?

for further study try these sites:

www.spiralnature.com
www.chaosmatrix.org
www.topy.net

these all have comprehensive guides to chaotic and traditional sigil magick.


~M
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Wbdsgnr1
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Post by Wbdsgnr1 » Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:17 pm

I use sigils but I didn't know there were different types or names.
I couldn't tell you the ones I use. Usually ones I find in books or whatever. Thats where I get most of my information.

any particular reason you brought this up?

blessed be
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Post by Luciferish » Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:23 pm

Most Pagans and Wiccans don't even know what a Sigil is, let alone how to use them.

Those of us who do, wouldn't say much to you about which ones we use... simply because it implies that you are trying to analyze something. Those of us who have used these kinds of things have been around long enough to be tired of being analyzed.
Even the devil's got a lawyer, would you like my card?



Est nullum problema tantum ut usu vis maximae idonei expediri non possit.

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Post by Lotus » Thu Sep 30, 2004 2:53 am

edited
Last edited by Lotus on Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Luciferish » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:45 am

Well I haven't voted yet, since the concept of "Traditional Pagan Magic Square" stuff is a very limited scope..

Magic Squares are more ceremonially focused, though there are a few pagan workings I know of that use the SATOR-ROTAS systems.

I have worked with "Sigils" from every reach
Alchemy
Greater/Lesser Keys of Soloman
Abra-Melin style squares
Golden Dawn Tablets (Based on the previous 2)
Qabalistic Glyphs
Common Symbols such as the Ankh, Pentagram, etc...
Runic Writings (Younger Futhork, Elder Futhark)
Ogam (BLFSN)
Shinto Kanji "Blessings"...
Saxon NorthUmbrian Runic (514 Runes), .....
Sanscrit Inscriptions,
Heiroglyphic Wards (Including some Phonic ones that were passed on to me).

I am sure there are others I overlooked.. but none of those are "traditional Pagans" and I have no idea what the other catagory is you mentioned...
Even the devil's got a lawyer, would you like my card?



Est nullum problema tantum ut usu vis maximae idonei expediri non possit.

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well la-de-da

Post by MuladHara » Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:43 am

sheeesh.
defensive people here.

at least lotus isn't uptight.

must there be some underlying reason for everything anyone ever does?

it's called simple curiousity.

i use sigils, of the spare variety, and having researched alot on wicca and such, I thought i'd ask the wiccan types what they actually DO use, if anything at all.

all I hear on chaos pages is how the pagans are all 'fluffy bunnies'
really more like the fundies than the fundies.

and here we are. you assume i'm using you to acheive some evil goal, well NO.

i haven't a harmful intent in this, if i did you'd never expect it, in fact, i wouldn't becuase I don't play that way.

you'd be surprised how much black magick is done by white witches.

I am just another human trying to make friends, and i used the only thing i could think of at the time to relate to you with.

well, excuse me, now i see why so many people DO persecute the wiccans, they are a lot of pretensious goose steppers.


never mind this crap, lotus is the only person who is cool here, so i'm leaving this lame board, forget trying to link up with the pagan community, they are obviously the same people who think kids aren't smart enough to be exposed to anything that doesnt carry a warning label.

i had no warning levels, my folks let me learn what i wanted when I wanted. i was never held back, and it sickens me to see kids today held back from being themselves.

live in your world of interpersonal fear and hide in your vicitm identities, even though you are worse than the fundamentalists who made you famous.

oh, and by the by, harry potter sucks.

ooh ooh, i said 'sucks'! some kid might explode!
:P
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Post by Luciferish » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:06 pm

WHEE!! look who's hostile!
Even the devil's got a lawyer, would you like my card?



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Post by FyreGarnet » Thu Sep 30, 2004 12:22 pm

well, apparently I got here a little too late. Not sure if there is any reason for me to post then. But Luc, lotus asked you what was wrong with being analyzed, and I, too, am wondering about that. Do you mean discriminated, and generalized?

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Post by Stormy » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:02 pm

I believe that you have taken what was said much too hard my dear - on this board we do not set out to purposely attack or insult anyone - if you'll stay long enough to get to know people, you would realize that Luciferish is simply a person who says what he means and means what he says without any animosity or self-rightousness attached. Please allow yourself time to get to know us before you fly off the handle thinking that you have been insulted.
I am sorry that you have taken offense, but it was not intended.

As for Sigils, Luciferish was making a valid point - most of us don't know what Sigils are or how to use them - myself included. If you can cool the temper a bit, I would be quite interested in seeing this topic discussed as it is one that I and I'm sure others, could learn from - and therefore, it WAS a good way for you to start to make contact with us and try to make new friends, ya just gotta give it a chance. (EDIT) AND you need to stop insulting us DIRECTLY when no one has even thought to do it to you.

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Post by Fairydust » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:15 pm

Wbdsgnr1 wrote:I use sigils but I didn't know there were different types or names.
I couldn't tell you the ones I use. Usually ones I find in books or whatever. Thats where I get most of my information.

any particular reason you brought this up?

blessed be
thats the same for me...-_- I dont know alot on sigils...But i have made some of the wish ones up...Like the ones where you make a wish take the first letter of each word and make a sigil out of it keep it close with you untill it comes true...and its worked for me...^.^
<b>lets just let ourselves be what ever it is that we are</b>

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Post by Lotus » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:20 pm

edited
Last edited by Lotus on Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Wbdsgnr1
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Post by Wbdsgnr1 » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:51 pm

we never meant to offend or to drive you away or say that you said you had bad intentions. We know its not like that.

You just need to calm down and not take everything the wrong way.
But you just insulted my people here and my board. This is my cyber pagan family and we all love each other and accept newcomers openly all the time, thats why we are growing by leaps and bounds.

But if this is your real attitude then we dont need you here at all.
And BTW harry potter does not suck and yes you can say suck on the board, I say it all the time.

Good bye.

blessed be
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jai jai

Post by MuladHara » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:10 pm

:oops:

hey, i came back because lotus wanted me too, and i would like to apologize for my brashness, I sometimes get rather donkey-like when i feel terrible. (the way you feel depends on your neurological knowhow--heheheh)

at any rate, harry potter sucks because he is an almagalm of like, 20 other, more stimulating childrens characters. for instance james and the giant peach.

anyhoo, thank you all for responding, i am amzed that yuo all know so very little of sigils. i guess that means yuo probably know little of servitors, godforms and gnosis.

oh well, thats what interpersonal relations are for.

i will write here more at some later time, as my back is beginning to hurt.

i am only an egg.

~sMg~
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Post by katsu » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:09 am

Main Entry: sig·il
Pronunciation: 'si-jil
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sigulle, from Latin sigillum -- more at SEAL
Date: 15th century
1 : SEAL, SIGNET
2 : a sign, word, or device held to have occult power in astrology or magic
from the encyclopedia Brittanica.

I'd have to go with Luciferish on this one, i have no idea what you mean by:
Traditional Pagan
Most of the sigils i use have a: Japanese, Celtic, Asatru background. But perhaps you could explain what you mean by Traditional Pagan.......

Tnx,
K

ps. Wanna see a sigil. (look below)
/|\

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Post by Luciferish » Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:42 am

FyreGarnet wrote:well, apparently I got here a little too late. Not sure if there is any reason for me to post then. But Luc, lotus asked you what was wrong with being analyzed, and I, too, am wondering about that. Do you mean discriminated, and generalized?

FyreGarnet
Well Fyre, Since many pagans, such as myself, have been disected by people from the far reaches of Ceremonial Magic and other places its often a trap to put too much of your workings out there. Alot of people will try to discredit what you do by saying "Thats not correct" or something similar. Frankly in my experience its hard to answer someone's very first post if its of this nature, they could just be fishing for a fight.

Their true nature will be revealed if they are denied their game, in this case I think it was working. If the creator of this thread is open to non-critical discussion he'll be fine, but posing questions like that is like asking what your bed-time activites are with your significant other. Magickal processes are often private and happily undiscussed things that are only shared in the intrests of furthering friendship and other relationships. To come here and throw something like that out first post is a bit drastic, though I think he's figured that out. The followup posts only suggest that he may have been one of these people, but it remains to be seen.

I am also curious why Lotus extracted himself from the thread, but thats another story. I am certain he would have had good input, but something must have changed his mind.

Sharing magickal methods with others is a great idea, if its done in a respectful way. Some of the topic matter here would come out of my pre-craft days and isn't related to what I do now, since I have grown out of most of that. Also the statement I made was not so much a counter attack as it was to make a point, pagans don't really use these systems of magick outright, but often include them in their workings. Sigils and their making, how you evoke them, etc. are all very detailed workings, not often used by 90% of the Pagans I know, only the old-timers have really studied them.
Even the devil's got a lawyer, would you like my card?



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