The truth of Lilith

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iriseyes
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The truth of Lilith

Post by iriseyes » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:57 am

You all know I am new on here and am not to sure where to post this, so If it is in the wrong place I am sorry and please move to a new location.

I am on this new journey, some of you have reached out and helped me with your kind words, wisdom and such. I few of you I have found my self waiting till you post your comments to my self and others on the boards.

Can someone share thier knowledge of Lilith? I have done some research on here but would like to hear what you have to say.

:-D
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Post by Jescissa » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:12 am

Ahh, Lilith the Screech Owl. Lilith appears in Hebrew mythology as the first wife of Adam who was created equally to him and refused to let him be the dominant one in their relationship. Lilith escaped from the Garden of Eden and had thousands of children with demons of the air.

An angel was sent to retrieve Lilith and bring her back to Adam, but she refused. The angel was commanded to kill 100 of Lilith's children for every day she refused to come back to Adam's side. Lilith still refused and said she would prey on every child born to Adam's descendents. The angel then said that if Adam's descendants call his name or have his name around their neck Lilith cannot harm them.

In later texts, Lilith is not called by name but she is known as Screech Owl and Night Demon.

As far as I'm aware 'Lilith's going to get you' is still something superstitious Jewish parents say to their kiddies and there used to be a tradition of having pendants for children with the angel's name on for protection.

(She's also Dr Frasier Crane's wife :lol:)
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by iriseyes » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:30 am

Actually this site sort of led me to the study of her in a sence..

I was reading the articles in the beginning of this site, thanks to who ever posted their location a big thanks =D> For I am buried in them more than a few hours a day.

I came across on article speaking of snakes, I think called Snake bite and it talked of someone possibly changing the bible, yet again. To make snakes look evil and they actually edited the story of Adam and Eve and the snake to fit their beliefs. I was reading that and was chatting with my dear friend.. I said read this article and she then asked me if I knew of Lilith? Said no and she said, go read.

My head is just spinning cause for all the stuff that I have learned all my life are a creation of mans own prerogative.

The more I learn the more Im realizing what I have been told..
"you'll never go back" . I mean how can I, now?
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Post by Jescissa » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:35 am

Iriseyes wrote:My head is just spinning cause for all the stuff that I have learned all my life are a creation of mans own prerogative.
That's how it goes and it's sad. Historical accounts are doctored all the time to support who is in power now and their beliefs. It makes historians cry! :cry:

Lilith is an interesting character. Hekate is one of the Goddesses I honour and there are parallels between the dark Lilith and Hekate in Greek myth. The association with owls as scary creatures in particular.

Read as much as you can for as long as you can and the way gets a bit clearer. You may feel swamped with info at the moment!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by iriseyes » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:44 am

Jescissa wrote:
Iriseyes wrote:My head is just spinning cause for all the stuff that I have learned all my life are a creation of mans own prerogative.
That's how it goes and it's sad. Historical accounts are doctored all the time to support who is in power now and their beliefs. It makes historians cry! :cry:

Lilith is an interesting character. Hekate is one of the Goddesses I honour and there are parallels between the dark Lilith and Hekate in Greek myth. The association with owls as scary creatures in particular.

Read as much as you can for as long as you can and the way gets a bit clearer. You may feel swamped with info at the moment!
(grabbing paper) I'm going to go look her up to. I found that many "witches" honor Lilith as being their mother. I try to be careful with what sites I pull my info from cause I'm not sure what are classified as bad pagen sites. I have my feelings and that is what I go by.

I'm really hoping I get a good range of responses from here.
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Post by Jescissa » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:25 am

Many people do honour Lilith as 'first witch', but she's not the only one. Hekate is also honoured as 'queen of the witches' and Isis too is a 'queen of the witches'. In Welsh Celtic tradition, Ceridwen is also a 'mother of the wise' and her cauldron is a symbol of wisdom and femininity.

Personally, I stay away from Hebrew mythology, it's too close to Christianity to me. I find it interesting, but it doesn't speak to me as much as Welsh mythology does. It's all personal choice though, if you find Lilith speaks to you, follow your interest through :-D
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by iriseyes » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:33 am

Jescissa wrote:Many people do honour Lilith as 'first witch', but she's not the only one. Hekate is also honoured as 'queen of the witches' and Isis too is a 'queen of the witches'. In Welsh Celtic tradition, Ceridwen is also a 'mother of the wise' and her cauldron is a symbol of wisdom and femininity.

Personally, I stay away from Hebrew mythology, it's too close to Christianity to me. I find it interesting, but it doesn't speak to me as much as Welsh mythology does. It's all personal choice though, if you find Lilith speaks to you, follow your interest through :-D
Im not sure if Lilith speaks to me or not, Im thinking not. My interest lies in old Celtic ways.. Just really intersts me like calling, in my case yelling.
I do reseach on all that I can.. I have done lots of reading on Ceridwen, she is one of my favorites.

I have not pledged to one yet.. I want to be most sertin Im following the right path.

Does that make sense? I look for the knowledge in others to help me know what to research. I have spoken (chatted) with a few that follow Celtic ways and it really interests me to hear more. Its almost like I can immerse my self in the story, smell the air, feel the grass under my feet sort of thing..
To thine own self be true.

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Post by Jescissa » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:27 am

Iriseyes wrote:Does that make sense? I look for the knowledge in others to help me know what to research.
That makes perfect sense to me :-D Unless we were born into a pagan path (not many of us are these days), we have to do our research and to find out things that people who were born into tradtions know instinctively.

I've been a part of this for 8-9 years and I still consider myself a learner! :-D

My Matron Goddess is Heket, the Egyptian Goddess of resurrection and midwifery. Her name came from the ancient Egyptian word for magic 'Heka' and is ancestor to the Greek name Hekate.

I honour Heka, Heket and Hekate as my maiden, mother and crone triad because we all start out as maidens the same way Heket and Hekate come from Heka. :-D

The reason why I came to Heket and consider myself her modern-day Priestess? Because the Egyptians saw the way a frog metamorphoses from an egg to a tadpole to a frog and thought it was resurrection in action and made their Goddess of childbirth and resurrection a woman with a frog's head. One of my spirit guides is a frog (I don't think he'll mind me telling you!), so when I saw Heket as a woman with a frog's head I just knew she was my Goddess.

I'm just showing you that the Gods leave us signs all over the place and it's up to us to join the dots and see their bigger picture :-D

Your interest in Lilith is you just following the path and joining the dots :-D
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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Post by Ragnar » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:42 pm

Some where in the cellars is a thread I put up about "Vampyres and/or werewolves", where some people gave a very full answer re Lilith.

I will try and find the link.

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Post by Ragnar » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:10 pm

Here it is. It was actualy in the middle of another thread. The way these things change topic is amasing. #-o :lol:
Paganlight

I've done some meagre research of my own, and suprisingly, the earliest reference of Vampirisim that I've found comes from the bible, and the story of Cain. I saw it on the internet a while back as well... Hang on, I'll dig it out.
Adam and Eve had two sons, Cain, a tiller of the ground, and Abel, a shepherd. Both brought offerings to God, Cain brought the fruits of the ground, and Abel, brought one of his flock as an offering. God approved of Abel’s offering, but not that of Cain’s. Cain became very angry at this.

As he and Abel where in the field on day, Cain rose up and struck his brother repeatedly until he was dead. God asked Cain “Where is your brother?” and Cain answered “Am I my brother's keeper?”.

God then asked Cain what he had done, that his brothers blood cried to him from the earth.

For his punishment in slaying his brother, Cain was cursed, the ground would not produce anything for him any longer, a fugitive and vagabond he would be.

Cain told God his punishment was more than he could bear, to always be hidden from the face of God and driven out from the face of the earth. Cain also told God his concern of being killed, but God set a mark upon Cain that if any should harm him, they would suffer punishment sevenfold. Cain then left into the land of Nod.

In myth, it is said that the curse that God had set upon Cain was to be cast into a world of darkness with a continuous craving for blood, and this curse has been passed from generation to generation, all the way up to the vampires of today. It is said that when Cain went into the world of darkness, that he became acquainted with Lilith, the first wife of Adam.

She had given some of her blood to Cain, which awakened him to his ability. After wandering for years in the wild, he returned to being amongst the mortals where he built a city called Enoch. There, Cain created the second generation of vampires by turning three mortals, they in turn created a third generation of vampires in vast numbers, and Cain finally forbade the creation of vampires from thence on. After some time, the city Cain had built was destroyed by a flood.

Cain ended up abandoning the city and leaving all the generations of vampires behind to do what ever they wanted, but before he left, he reminded them of his command to not create any more vampires. The vampires completely rebelled against Cain’s command and made a 4th generation of vampires, who rose up against the elder vampires.
(from http://www.vampire-coven.com/vampireorigin.html)

The problem is that we have very little in the way of documented evidence for Lilith - in the bible at any rate. We do, however, know she was a Goddess.

This site ( http://www.gotojassminesitenow.com/godd ... llith.html ) has this as the story of Lillith:
LEGEND OF LILLITH - "My name thou knowest not, and yet shall know, And know too late. But, know thou this indeed: Joy is my sister. Sister I, to Death." It is said that Lillith was the twin sister of Adam and dwelt with him in the Garden at Paradise. Adam was king of Eden and Lillith wished to be co-ruler with him, but the Lord of Light permitted it not. Lillith was beautiful and wise. She wearied of her brother, Adam, who was less wise than she. Lillith refused to bear children from Adam. The Lord of Light was angered and turned Lillith out of Paradise.

Samuel, an angel of the Lord of Light and a son of god, fell in love with Lillith. To Samuel, Lillith bore three half-god, half-human children, all called the nephilim. Their wisdom, power and beauty was so great that the children of Darkness were afraid of them and called them monstrous names to defile them. Lillith would not be defiled. From her beloved Samuel she learned the wisdom of the Lord of Light and became the first witch.

She lived as a daughter of the night mother, calling the people to dance and be joyous by the light of the moon. Her symbol was the night owl, and those who followed her called her Arionrhod. The children of Darkness trembled and barred their doors at night seeking to protect themselves lest Lillith take them and teach them the ways of the wise ones, the witches of old.

Litllith is an archetype for the woman who refuses to be dominated by man. She was created the stories say when Adam was created from dust just as Adam was, she claimed to be his equal. When Adam wanted to lie with her she wanted to know why she must be on the bottom. This shows she was in full control of her sexuality.

She is a largely misunderstood archetype who has been called Poetress of Darkness, Imp of Impetuosity, and Occasional Serpent of Seduction. . She is deeply committed to her personal freedom and keeps her moral strength alive.

She was kicked out of Eden and then Adam was given another wife. In some tales she is the snake of the garden who tempted Eve. Some stories say she is a demon,others a fallen angel. . She has a mysterious power that is permanent, direct, and instinctual. To be cast out for not obeying your husband is enough to make you a snake or a demon in the history of the Jewish people.
So we have two conflicting stories about 'Lillith' or Arianhrod - one that she was the first Vampire, one a Goddess and the first witch.
http://www.paganlibrary.com/phpBB2/view ... h&start=75

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Post by Gatekeeper » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:08 am

So we have two conflicting stories about 'Lillith' or Arianhrod - one that she was the first Vampire, one a Goddess and the first witch.
why can't see be both? some say she is the mother of everything magical



btw the vampire story is from a vampire rpg book :p I can give you the isbn nummer I have it at home :P book is called "revelations of the dark mother" or you can read "Book of nod" both by white wolf and both out of print. interresting fact. Cain also meets an old crone who learns him the uses his powers.
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Post by iriseyes » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:11 am

Ragnar thanks for the links.. That was some interesting reading..

Gate: Can you post that isbn number for me. Thanks
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Post by Gatekeeper » Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:30 am

ISBN 1-56504-078-3 --> book of nod
ISBN 1-56504-237-9 --> Revelations of the dark mother

both books are out of print. but it is possible to find them using torrents or other illegal ways

Wikipedia has alot about her as well. I just added the book of enoch to my list. is all about angels
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Post by Eretik » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:36 am

I noticed that too Gatekeeper, I don't play 'Vampire - The Masquerade' by Whitewolf, but lots of my friends do. The game is very well researched and many of the scenarios are factually accurate historically, however, The story of Cain and Lilith etc., is one that ,though interesting,should not be taken as fact,as it is not possible to prove. It was the part with the next gen. and the rebellion that I recognised, I love to read through the books, my friend has them all. He goes to comic book stores and has managed to complete his collection. I didn't know they had gone out of print. Here in Glasgow the game is extremely popular, with live versions and meet ups. Sorry for digressing.
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Post by Jescissa » Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:56 am

Paganlight wrote:
Her symbol was the night owl, and those who followed her called her Arionrhod.
Well, that's news to me! Arianrhod is a Welsh Goddess featured in the Mabinogion, her name means silver wheel and there is a constellation (can't remember which one now, perhaps Daibanjo knows?) that is called Caer Arianrhod (or Arianrhod's Fortress) because it is a wheel of silver stars.

This reference to Arianrhod 'Vampire Queen' is a little strange!
"If you trust in yourself and believe in your dreams and follow your star...you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy. Goodbye." - Miss Tick, Terry Pratchett's Wee Free Men

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